The Big Switch: Reasons I chose Baruch MFE program

By Joy Pathak - Updated 1 year ago

Baruch College, New York City
“Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending.” – Maria Robinson

As many of you have heard, I have decided not to attend Illinois Institute of Technology’s Master in Finance program, and instead opted to enroll at Baruch College in their Masters of Science in Financial Engineering program. I am not going to get into the details of the application process, and so on. As it is obvious, the decision of admission came in at the 11^th hour. I was all set to move to Chicago and then ‘it’ happened. In a short span all that could happen, happened, and I was set to move to New York. I was admitted to Baruch College in their MS in Financial Engineering program. It took me less than 4 hours to reply back with a decision to opt for Baruch program.

In this post, I will outline, as to what it is about Baruch that made me go for this big switch. I lost more than $2000 overall in the switch, but well worth it. We all know that Baruch is one of the top programs in the Financial Engineering in the world, but I will outline in particular the reasoning behind the switching and WHY I believe that they are such a great program.

I will not be flat out comparing, IIT MS Finance with the Baruch MFE, program although a subtle comparison can be seen at times. I hope that the post of mine here could be helpful to those of you, the prospective students to evaluate which school to attend. Compare your program using these factors and decide which place is the optimal for you to attend.

1) Curriculum:

My goal, as can be seen from my previous posts, was to enter a program where I can really develop and enhance my mathematical and programming skills with strong application to financial applications. I had a particular set of classes that I was particularly interested in taking for my graduate studies. These included: Stochastic Processes, Object Oriented Programming, Algorithmic Trading Development, Commodities Trading, and Time Series Analysis. I wanted some variation of these courses in my program. In addition, I had other interests that I wanted to pursue, for example, taking electives in Volatility Trading, Structured Finance, Statistical Arbitrage and Risk Management. To my luck and great surprise, Baruch just released a BRAND NEW Curriculum. The program requires one to take 7 core classes and the rest of the 5 courses are ELECTIVES that we can pick from a range of courses. Such curriculum makes Baruch one of the most flexible programs out there. One can basically pick one whole semester at their discretion to specialize in certain areas. Not only, am I able to get all the courses I wanted, I will have the opportunity of learning it from some of the top practitioners in the field, who have equally very strong research credentials. The curriculum is effectively set up to prepare you for a large range of jobs in the field, from Quant Developers, Statistical Arb Quants, Structured Financial Analyst, to Quantitative Strategists. Such spectrum is just enormous making Baruch program very unique. The computational and mathematical components are at par with the other Top schools offering similar programs. This was one big difference between the MS Finance program and the MS. Financial Engineering program. For me to take additional mathematical courses elsewhere, I had to go out of the program, register in courses with the Mathematics department, and fulfill the requirements. Having the ability to pick from a range of courses within one single housed program is truly great at Baruch. There is no job within the Trading and Quant world of Finance that Baruch curriculum does not prepare you for whether you want to become a Structured Finance Quantitative Analyst at a top consulting firm, or an IT analyst at a brokerage or get together with your friends from Baruch MFE and open your own Quant Hedge Fund. (BTW, those are all things Baruch alumni of the program are doing).

In addition, the program has refresher seminars. I think EVERY program should have a refresher set of courses. If you have a look at programs like CMU,Columbia,UChicago, Berkeley, etc, they all have refresher courses offered to their students to prepare them for the rigors of the program so that the students can truly succeed and learn effectively throughout the program. A program with refresher courses is a must for the discipline like financial engineering.

2) Faculty:

The faculty at Baruch has the perfect blend of practitioners and academicians. Over the years, Baruch program has evolved and the credit MUST go to its administration. Now, the teaching faculty of Baruch program is one of the BEST lot of bright, experienced, and personal achievers. I am providing you with achievements of only some (there are great many more) Baruch faculty in financial engineering program below:

Dan Stefanica (Author of A Primer for the Mathematics of Financial Engineering)
Sylvain Raynes (Author of The Analysis of Structured Securities: Precise Risk Measurement and Capital Allocation and The Elements of Structured Finance)
Jim Gatheral (Author of The Volatility Surface: A Practitioner’s Guide (Wiley Finance))

The program is full with extraordinary people (http://mfe.baruch.cuny.edu/faculty). I mean honestly, who wouldn’t want to be taught by Jim Gatheral? He is one of the most famous quant in the world. The faculty range from current Managing Directors at Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, to Research head at Bloomberg, etc. At the same time there are academicians teaching the core theory classes that is so imperative to the MFE base education The concentration of knowledge at the MFE Faculty at Baruch is unimaginable. The proximity to Wall street also attracts some amazing guest speakers, and adjunct lecturers. Having a great faculty like this, with deep connections in the industry is a dream comes true for any student.

3) Overall University Impact:

This is a very subjective criterion. Yes, it can be understood that a layperson might not know who/what Baruch College is, but does that really matter? Baruch is very well established in New York City and its MFE program is well entrenched in the financial world through its alumni and faculty. Do the Wall Street decision makers know about Baruch MFE? The answer is a definite, yes. Baruch MFE has grown into a very established program with strong placements on Wall Street. People know how selective Baruch is and what quality of students it produces. Students usually have multiple interviews/job offers upon graduation for a reason. As long as the hiring manager at Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, BNP Paribas know about your program, that’s all that matters. And yes, they know it VERY well. If you search through some old articles on Google, you will see how strong the program is in the eyes of people who matter. It is a general understanding now in the eyes of people who matter, that Baruch MFE is a top program now along the ranks of NYU, CMU, Princeton, Berkeley, and Columbia.

4) Placements:

Do I really even have to say anything here… Let the facts speak for themselves…

Graduation Date	Graduates	Placement Rate	PhD/MS	Did Not Look	Low	High	Average
Dec’09-May’10	29	27 of 29	0	0	75K	110K	90K

First Year Starting Salary for Students with No Work Experience

Graduation Date	Graduates	Placement Rate	PhD/MS	Did Not Look	Low	High	Average
Dec’09-May’10	22	21 of 22	0	0	75K	97K	88K

I mean, honestly, who puts up stats of students with no work experience? I have not seen such an open and transparent display of statistics anywhere. It is amazing to see the high numbers nonetheless.

While at Baruch, I will not be looking to settle with ‘any job’ as I would have to if I was elsewhere. Here, at Baruch, I will be aiming as high as one can possibly imagine, and why shouldn’t I? The students have all gone on to do great things, at some of the biggest companies in the world. It’s not too much to think about getting a quant position at Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, or Bank of America as a student at Baruch.

The one good thing about Baruch is that, I don’t have to be worried anymore about getting a job upon graduation. All I have to do is focus on my studies and try to learn as much as I can during the program, as the job…will follow. I haven’t even started the program, and I have already had emails forwarded to me regarding trading related jobs at Bloomberg and various other banks by the program director at Baruch.

Although, Baruch has VERY high placement rates with very high starting salaries, it does not mean that I have a guaranteed job and nor should anyone think that they will have a guaranteed job. It does however mean that the probability of me getting a good job increases considerably compared to other universities; I will still have to work hard to get a good job.

5) Active Alumni Network

One of the things that REALLY set apart Baruch from most programs is the strong alumni network of the MFE program. One of the reasons for such high placement rate is its alumni network of the graduates holding high positions. This friendly family attitude of alumni with students is something that can only be seen at very few Ivy League schools. Baruch MFE program alumni and regular students have several social networking events throughout the year where alumni and students get to meet and discuss career plans. In addition, there is a one-on-one alumnus mentoring program which I have not seen offered anywhere. If I am interested in some field, and an alumni works in that area, he/she can offer me one on one personal mentoring so that I can work on my interview skills and job application to target positions within that sector of the industry. No career center can provide this invaluable assistance, to the best of my knowledge. The alumni also frequently email the program director of positions within their firm, which the director forwards to the students. This helps getting past a few barriers in the recruitment process and increases the chance of attaining an interview/job within the firm.

Alumni know what it takes to get into the Baruch program in first place and help create this brotherly/family atmosphere very rare to find. It is almost like being part of a fraternity.

6) Selectivity

Baruch is one of the most selective programs with very low admission rate. This year was 7% making it one of the most selective cohorts ever in the program. The selectivity makes one so proud to be a part of this program. This was one of the most attractive things to me. To be considered to be part of this amazing group is truly flattering. I have been talking to some of my co-students and it is great to see the diversity. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and we all complement each other in some way. There are people with work experience of NASA, PhD’s, people who work/worked for the big Investment Banks, people who worked for other large financial and non-financial firms, and even someone who worked for Ren Tech. The few people I have spoken too are amazing, and I cannot wait to make new friends while at Baruch. I will be rooming with another incoming Baruch student (William) and that is also going to be awesome!

7) Location:

This is quite an important factor in choosing a program. Chicago is the second largest financial hub of North America. The only way, is upward, and New York being the Financial Capital of the world, it is the epitome of financial engineering. All the top programs in the world with satellite campuses pick New York to have their alternate campus. They don’t pick Toronto, Boston, San Francisco, or Chicago, but pick New York. I do not have to justify this point. We all want to end up in New York at some point, so going to a school in New York is the best decision.

6) Internship:

Being able to do an internship is one of the most important criteria for me. I have no previous financial experience so I need to be able to gain some in the form of a Summer internship. An advice for students reading this…If an internship is not offered and you don’t have any experience, re-think your decision about the school. Also, see if you can switch your schedule around to do an internship anyways and graduate a semester or so later. Many programs do not offer internships or placement services for internships. Baruch has a 100% placement rate basically for internships. Also, the great thing is that if there is a class offered in the summer that one can take in the evening while working so as to reduce the workload in the upcoming semester. This year (upcoming summer) almost all the students have got internships, with a few still being interviewed. The students have achieved internships at a range of companies like Barclays, JPMorgan, Ernst & Young, Morgan Stanley, Numerix, Quantitative Brokers, R&R Consulting, Susquehanna, etc.

7) Cost

In my previous post, as many of you remember, I did not give cost a big consideration. When you compare majority of the programs, top or not top, they are all around the 55-60K ball-park except some are 70K upwards. However, when you are given the choice of 20K tuition for the entire program, it was just unbelievable. It is the MOST AFFORDABLE program out there in this field. The RATE OF RETURN on an investment of 20K for education and say another 25K for living expenses through the program, is the highest out of ANY program.

Conclusion:

As you can see, my decision to switch was serious and highly considered rather than a spontaneous impulse. Yes, I did switch 3 days before moving to Chicago but for very good reasons. I sacrificed and will be sacrificing quite a bit by not going to Chicago. I gave up an internship offer (though obtained by own efforts); I gave up the $1500 deposit on my apartment; my deposit at the university, and the possibility to make several good friends in Chicago. What I got in return, is the chance to make several new friends in New York, attain more/better internship opportunities, and start a new life in New York, the largest financial center in the world. I believe my life definitely has moved for the better. The opportunities that I would have as a Baruch graduate are truly enormous. The familial atmosphere that Dr. Dan Stefanica has created in the Baruch MFE program is incomparable to any. It is basically as I said before like being part of a sought after fraternity/family.

The decision to go to Baruch has already opened up lots of opportunities for me. I am already in talks with Dr. Liew of JKL Capital Management on a big potential project on Statistical Arbitrage. He will also be teaching the Time Series Analysis-Algorithmic Trading course this Spring at Baruch. I have also made some good friends who are part of the incoming Baruch MFE class(William, Amanda, David).I have been assigned an alumni-mentor/adviser who has been very helpful with any question I have had and has advised me on several topics already.

All things taken, I did not pick Baruch only because the program excels in all the factors mentioned above. I picked Baruch because it also fits me best. Only time will tell what the future holds for me…but I am very excited to find out.

As many of you know the Baruch program has a set of refresher seminars to prepare for the rigorous curriculum. I have switched my preparation 10 folds also, and am basically on an accelerated preparation schedule for the refresher seminars and fall semester. The new schedule has been VERY beneficial to me. I will be making a “How I am Preparing for Financial Engineering Programs Part 2” soon. It will include more advanced and specific topics that I will be preparing. I move to New York June 11^th, so I will post a few pictures/videos possibly on my first week in New York with footage of the university, the other students, and maybe some interviews with the faculty and alumni that I run into.

You can find out more about the Baruch MFE program at their new website: mfe.baruch.cuny.edu/

Until next time…

Feel free to download my Finance research paper “What Determines Capital Structure of Listed Firms in India?“, It was ranked Top 10 by several e-journals for this month. http://papers.ssrn.com/abstract=1561145

Follow me on Twitter: @joypathak

Tags: Baruch MFE, financial engineering ranking, Joy Pathak, MFE degree, program review, reasons to attend baruch

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Hmmm, for some reason this article smells like an info-mercial…kinda like listening to Jim Crammer telling us how ethical GS is.

Really, Joy you sound like a PR man for Baruch.

Gee,I hope quantnet doesn’t pull an CNBC move and drop my comment…

Rich, 1 year ago

You’re free to comment as you please . My blog posts are independent of QuantNet. It’s my opinion and not QuantNet’s that is posted in my blog.

I am just really passionate and proud of the program I am attending, which I tried to convey through my post.

Joy Pathak, 1 year ago

Interesting to see another epic post for Baruch after deleting the previous epic post about IIT, Chicago.
You sure are passionate about the program you are attending which is required & absolutely normal. I admire your writing prowess.
But a sudden whipsaw in this fashion can dent the authenticity & validity of such an articulate writting! I guess.

pankaj, 1 year ago

Joy, you have lost some credibility. You sang the praises of IIT, but have rejected their offer for the next best thing. You settled for “second best”. Riddle me this “which progam would make you reject the Baruch offer?”. Then we can read all about the glory of this program. For every credibility gap there is a gullibility gap.

Beck, 1 year ago

@ Pankaj.. @ Beck

Understandable sentiments. I thank you both for taking the time to read/follow my posts. It is appreciated and truly means a lot.

To be able to really show why I chose Baruch “over” IIT, I would have to show a ‘comparison’ per say. I do not want to compare Baruch and IIT, however different or same they might be. It is not fair to IIT, their students,faculty. As you see, I liked the IIT program, and still do.

I did not choose a program because it was a “better program”, however true that might be. I chose a program because it was a better fit for me. In my long-term goals Baruch is a better option for me as I have insinuated all throughout my post. There are many who might prefer IIT over Baruch.They might prefer the Ms Finance degree, the higher flexibility of taking non-quant courses,etc. I did not have a Baruch offer initially and from the choices(several or few they might be) I had, the best fit I could find for me was IIT.

You have to realize, that this decision was made with a lot of thought and consideration. I lost quite a bit of money in making the switch. Baruch fits every requirement I have of a program. Would any program trump my decision to Baruch? No, as I believe Baruch is the perfect fit for me. If there was another program that could trump it, I would not have picked Baruch and would have instead applied/picked that program instead.

Great post Joy. Another one for the records. I do agree with others opinions on your post, but at the same time see where you’re coming from too. I see your thought process with the change. You made a good choice by switching. Baruch and IIT are in different leagues. I am a graduate student at another MFE program and if offered Baruch would take it in a heartbeat. It might seem like you lost a bit of cred with your switch, but it was the smart and right decision. Congrats! and I wish you luck! Looking forward to your future posts. Always a good read.

Eric D. Frazen, 1 year ago

@Joy Dude you just do not know how much you have screwed yourself by this move. When I was applying to programs I applied to Baruch because I got mislead by their great spamming effort on the internet. Maybe you would appreciate the words spamming and mislead better if I said even though I got through into all the dream schools of most students here, I was at a point seriously considering joining Baruch. But with the grace of God sanity prevailed and I started talking to current students from all the different schools. No I did not just talk to some random Joe from the program because that would be conflict of interest for him and he would brag about his program. I picked those students who were linked to me somehow e.g. same undergrads school, same grad school, same town, same whatever, etc. One of a couple of my well wishers from Baruch asked me “did you really get through in other name brand schools as you say? If you did why do you want to come to Baruch”. There are so many other things that he said as well and many of them are related to quality issues which are highly subjective. If you have attended schools like MIT you would understand that concept better.

Good luck to you!

PS: Stop being part of the spam.

sak, 1 year ago

Frankly, quantnet seems to be an advertisment for the Baruch MFE. I started visiting it when i got into a similar program, to research before I made a decision. there might be quants out there who make six-figure salaries but i wonder why you need to get into 50-70K debt for that. even the university professors and mid-level managers make that (with lesser stress and health consequences and at an earlier point in their life when an investment into your 401K is multiplicative than a later age)…it really did not make sense to me all those mid-level career changers on quantnet wanting to be “quants” for teh sake of money….the “spam’ is fooling you my dears
now that being said, i love the site because i adore math and quant stuff.
i dont think Joy’s switch is all that surprising to me considering the space Baruch and Prof. Stefanica get on the website (even though Joy states his blog is independent of quantnet)

Xavir, 1 year ago

But if he found Baruch better suited for him than IIT, I think he should go for it. Afterall, a university is a good investment of time and money, and you should be wherever you feel maximizes your utility. unless IIT had offered him some scholarship and invested heavily in him, Joy should be free to be a utility maximising rational choice theorist

Congrats Joy. Baruch MFE is a great program with great Faculty and curriculum from what I have heard and read. As for the loss of cred, don’t sweat it. Its all part of “putting yourself out there” and people will always critique and question your motives.

young, 1 year ago

Even though I have issues with a section of Quantnet, I still adore it. I like the experienced guys here, professors, book reviews, interviews, discussions, etc. I wish Quantnet was truly a forum without conflict of interest.

“I am just really passionate and proud of the program I am attending, which I tried to convey through my post. ”

Correction … you are not attending yet and have not attended one second in the program so how can you possibly be proud of the program of which you have not actually experienced or done anything in?

Maybe after you actually start attending Baruch then you might love it or maybe not …but I think you should wait until you have graduated or at least until you have actually taken a course or two before you’re PROUD of the program…no?

I think you are very excited about the program and I would be to if I were you … Baruch’s MSFE looks like a very good program.

A misguided article.

You (Joy) stated:
“I am just really passionate and proud of the program I am attending, which I tried to convey through my post. ”

Merriam Webster:

Proud: having Pride:

Pride: delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship .

OK, you (Joy) said that wrote this article because you are proud of the Baruch Program, But, I assume you performed not act i.e. had nothing to do with designing or teaching of the Baruch MSFE, and I assume you do not own (possess) the program and I assume that you did not give birth to (parental pride) the Baruch MSFE program.

Therefore, you can NOT have PRIDE in the Baruch MSFE.

But, I’m sure that the Baruch administration and professors love your article, but quantNet is too obvious in their bias when they print such PR.

Okay, this is getting very childish.. If any of you agreed to pay Joy’s tuition fees at IIT or Baruch, then you can berate him on this switch. If not, zip it. He is doing what is best for him as should every one.

atreides, 1 year ago

Bro, Happy for you. Baruch is seriously epic and I believe it is a very good move. No comparison or letting down IIT show here, but Baruch is seriously epic. All the best for your future. Had I been offered a place, I would have sure chosen Baruch. I would say, it has got the perfect mix, like we say back here in India.. “masaledaar” program.

kbharadwaj, 1 year ago

When did you apply to Baruch? When you were describing your path to an MFE program here and at global derivatives, I don’t remember you mentioning applying there? Did you apply there after you started as a blogger/writer for Quant Net?

physEcon, 1 year ago

The Big Switch: Reasons I chose Baruch MFE program

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