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For entry-level quant position, how to compare the career perspectives of the following three categories: 1) famous hedge funds (e.g., Two Sigma/DEShaw/Citadel) 2) relatively established prop shops (e.g., Getco, Hudson River Trading, Jump Trading) 3) new shops (Eladian Partners, Teza...

Thanks for the input! How about entry-level candidates? Do headhunters get a fixed amount of commission for placing an entry-level candidate? Or their commission also depends on the offer rate? In other words, is using headhunters a negative thing for negotiating the offer?

Or headhunter's commission is a fixed number for a certain level of candidates, *regardless* of the details in the final offer?

For students, most our references are from professors. For companies who ask reference contacts from us, will they really contact every professor we list as references? If 10 companies asked me about references, will each professor be contacted 10 times? This is kind of crazy ... professors...

Oh I see. I guess I didn't make my question clear. For positions that we cannot find by ourselves, certainly we need to work with HH. The main question is for companies that list their openings online (e.g., twosigma, deshaw, worldquant). I'm asking because many times HHs contact me but the...

Nice points ... I guess it's really difficult to spot such a "good" HH ?

Nice discussions. Thanks. Since the company needs to pay HH, does it mean: 1) if two candidates are approximately same good, then they will take the one that applies by herself to avoid the extra payment? 2) those who apply by themselves are easier to negotiate a better starting package since...

Thanks for the input. So one possible benefit is "a larger chance to get the first-round interview". Is there other benefit? e.g., can headhunter help us negotiate the package in a way that we cannot do by ourselves?

Say, a real quant researcher or quant strategist offer. 90k ~ 150k base, and then ... Sign-on bonus? Guaranteed Bonus?

Could you elaborate on this? Thanks!

For companies who already posted their openings on their websites, what are the benefits / risks of using headhunter (instead of applying by ourselves)? e.g., two sigma post all their openings on the website and also has a number of campus recruiting events, yet quite a few headhunters...

A fully funded master program is difficult to find. The reason you get fully funded in your program is because you work for your department/advisor (i.e., you provide enough values). A master student isn't that valuable as a worker, since he needs most of his 1.5-2 years finishing his own study...

I'm not sure what kind of fully-funded programs you can get in. I will be more worried about getting in such a program before I start thinking about how to get off ... Also, not sure what a master degree from a third-tier CS program can give you (if you already have a reasonably decent...

In a fully-funded CS program, you pretty much is financially supported by your advisor. If your advisor is not happy with your performance and/or you doing part-time job, he can stop your funding anytime he wants.

1. It's not the "right" thing to do. 2. A fully funded PhD program is MUCH more difficult to get in than a Master program (the number of openings in a fully-funded PhD program is just too limited). As a result, you might be able to get in a top 5 master program, but only a top 50 PhD program...

Good to know. Thanks!

Hi Andy, Although most entry-level positions are quant developers, there should still be some entry-level quant research positions for people like bigband, right? Also, perhaps I am wrong, but I feel that quite a few headhunters are still interested in entry-level candidates (although...

Perhaps these people are qualified for IT jobs but not for quant jobs since the beginning. This is quite common. But it may not apply to provisos. Provisos is a machine learning PhD who already got a bank offer. I'm not sure what high-tech offer he/she has, but it must be some kind of machine...

I agree with alain. Openings at finance firms will not disappear as long as you have your skills, while a good start up that matches your expertise and interests does not come along very frequently. I think a key question is how good is that start-up opportunity ... well this is hard to...

99% people in China can speak Mandarin, while only people born in HongKong, the vicinity of Canton, and a few areas in southern China can speak Cantonese (but they can also speak Mandarin, too). Mandarin is the universal language in China, which is *required* to be used as the official...

IMHO, there is not many options. I feel Mac is great for personal entertaining but might not be the top choice for a working laptop, especially if you consider the budget. For PC laptops, Thinkpad seems to be the only choice left. Some people said the quality of Thinkpad is no longer as good as...

Nice. How many of them are quant hedge funds?

First, your chance for a decent MFE program is much better than that for a MBA program. Second, an EE PhD from Caltech is highly appreciated in quant finance. You can even stay in your PhD program a few years (and get a Master degree from Caltech) and quit when you find a full-time quant job...

I guess Andy was talking about both Q and V (a 800 Q score, and a high V score). The 800 part is about Q. It is true that the correlation between the GRE verbal score and the actual English skill is not even close to 1.0 .... But on the other hand, suppose you and I have the same level of...

Some small comments about GRE Q tests ... 800 Quantitative GRE is indeed very easy ... many foreign educational systems do emphasize math/phy/engineering subjects even in middle schools. Actually the GRE Quantitative tests are basically the junior-middle school level Math in countries like...

Two comments: 1) students in US just have "smarter" way for cheating and plagiarism, e.g., "group discussion", which is "officially encouraged" and "highly effective". 2) You are probably biased and doing "selective sampling" on your observations. It's actually a fun topic. US students are...

What is the true reason that Google decided to quit from Chinese market? Business is business, so I guess the leading reason is still the fact that Google is currently not making big money in the Chinese market and it is difficult to beat Baidu in the near future in China. Also, on the other...

A MFE ranking has nothing much to do with the B-School ranking / Math ranking (or weakly correlated at most). Havard has a top B-school, but its MFE ranking is .... there isn't a MFE at harvard. Also, as a MFE student, you are not trying to be a professor at B-school or Math dept.

Let's follow your theory and see what we can derive .... ============================ Goverment A provides people with "economic development", so the people have become sympathetic towards A. Goverment B provides people with "developed economics" and "freedom of expression", so the people...

I second that. I'm from China. ---------- Post added at 02:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 AM ---------- This is so ... narcissistic, my friend :) I'm from China and I like a lot of things in US. But I do will turn back. Personally I believe our goverment has done a great...

Is this headhunter good? I got their call a few days ago. I went to their website, and found all their posted jobs have incredibly high salary. Any suggestion welcomed. Thanks!

Usually when I google job posts, there are some junior quant positions related to "credit risk analysis", where the main function is to develop statistical models for credit ratings. This can be fun, just as developing statistical models to predict users' ratings on...

shutdown because ... nobody willing to pay the high tuition and end up with jobless.

Thanks. What is the difference between hedge funds and those traditional/conservative shops? Especially in terms of quant skills they use. Or .... traditional shops such as blackrock/BGI don't use quantitative staff ...?

Recently a lot of people are discussing GS/MS as a commercial bank and one of the possible result is the restriction on leverage. Then what happen is: less profit due to low leverage --> less bonus for everyone. But what will happen on buy-side firms such as hedge funds?

In the recruiting process, are these experienced quants from the falling banks directly compete with the fresh graduates from schools? Or most companies have clear planing that "we want 3 high-salary experienced guys and 2 cheap fresh graduates" and thus these two groups of candidates will not...

It sounds great. Thanks!

It is said that only IBs will consider international students, while buy-side units such as hedge funds require citizenship and will not support international students. It that ture?

On the one hand, as an old saying goes, where you sit determines what you see (and think). In other word, people always tend pay more attention on what we want to see, and tend to believe what they want to believe --- I call it people's nature of "selective observation" --- this is also why you...

Don't waste your time to argue this. OR students will emphasize the importance of OR, while Phy. students will argue for Phy. For this sort of question, it is just the group you are staying determines your perspective.

thanks for suggestion, this one should also be one of the candidates. but some people told me this one is classic ... but dry ... also, since it is published on 1999, will it be a little outdated? 3ks

Anyone can recommend some material? Some possible choices are listed as follows. The third one is actually a financial economics book with concentration on stocks, so its table of contents looks pretty comprehensive. 1) Quantitative Equity Portfolio Management (McGraw-Hill Library of...

my 2 cents before DominiConnor gives the correct answer ... I guess straight quants mainly correspond to those working on derivatives in IB (sell-side quants), while algo.trading quants are those working on hedge funds (buy-side quants). The techiques used by them are different: the former...

This's really a good suggestion. On the other hand, talking to an actual trader has no contradiction with first knowing some basics of algorithm trading from books. At least I need to know what to talk about :) Thanks! BTW, you remind me that the most important thing for entering the wall...

I'm looking for my first book on trading systems/quantitative trading strategies, here are some candidates: New Trading Systems and Methods (Wiley Trading) by Perry J. Kaufman (2005) The Encyclopedia of Trading Strategies by Jeffrey Owen Katz and Donna L. McCormick (2000) Technical Analysis...

Many thanks for the information! Hope the book you mentioned will be published soon. I can find a few recent books on portfolio management/optimization, but none of them received positive rating consistently at amazon. For books in algo. trading, things become even worse.

For a statistics/computer science guy to find a junior position in 1) algo. trading or 2) quantitative equity research (yes, I know they are two different positions, but both of them need statistics and programming to analyze large-scale data set), what knowledge/skills are important (in...

Thanks! What is the difference between "econometrics for finance" and general econometrics? I know the first book I listed is excellent as a general econometrics book, but I don't know if it is the best entry-level choice for finance folks. Also, Tsay's book seems very popular in finance...

Great. Thanks, ljp99. Are buyside quants divided into front/middle/back offices? If so, risk management is in the middle office while portfolio management is in the front office? BTW, database is IT support? Or they also do analysis work? Thanks, again.

1) A Guide to Econometrics (by Peter Kennedy) 2) Introductory Econometrics for Finance (by Chris Brooks) I want to choose one from the two books. Any comment on these two books? The first one is highly appraised as a general econometrics textbook, while the second one seems to be designed...

"Buyside quants heavily on empirical finance, AI and statistics", I'm really interested in this type of quants you mentioned. Do you mean the quants working on quantitative portfolio management? Otherwise, what's the buyside quants you mentioned if neither portfilio optimization nor algo...

Hi Aoglobalent, I also have heard about the fifth class of quant you indicated. Somebody call them "the core quants". It seems that we (graduate students) cannot be such core quants: I heard that most core quants are established professors in math/stat/phy/finance.

Thanks. Yes, I realized that such a question is hard to answer. Actually, what I really care about is not the exact number of salary, but the career path for an engineering/science student on these different tracks. Well, this is also a hard question ...

Sadly, there is a real dilemma for people like me ... 1) people always say, if you quit your PhD at MS level, you will not get a decent quant job because a MS in CS can only get a quant developer position. 2) people also say, most of the knowledge you get from you CS PhD degree is not useful...

Unfortunately, this is a job about machine learning and data mining research, since I didn't think about hunting a finance-related internship at the time of applying summer intern. Anyway, I'm still hoping that the project they will give to me is something related to finance, e.g., statistical...

I really appreciate your reply ... valuable information!

Andy, thanks! I mentioned Yahoo! just to indicate that I cannot go to any finance internship this summer. For example, I mentioned the internship position you post, which is soooooooooooooo good. But I even cannot try, because I already accept the summer intern at Yahoo! :( So, what I mean...

I'm a student from a top CS program, and will get a master degree in 2009 (but in fact this is a PhD program, the master is just a mid-way degree). My research is on machine learning and statistical data analysis. I'm considering the possibility of finding a quantitative finance job in 2009...

Consider the following types of quants, if quant not only refers to type 3): 1) Quants in hedge funds, doing statistical arbitrage/high frequency trading 2) Quants in hedge funds, doing quantitative asset/portfolio management 3) Quants in front desks of IB, doing derivative pricing 4) Quants...

I'm very interested in the comparison between Princeton MFIN vs. other OR programs. Since you are from Columbia MSOR (i judged that from your posts), perhaps you can provide some information about this.

e.g., for quants concentrating on quantitative portfolio optimization and management 3ks

Generally, is Princeton's MFin program as good as Berkeley/NYU/CMU MFE?

Generally, is Princeton's MFin program as good as Berkeley/NYU/CMU MFE?

M.Fin program, especially the M.Fin program @ Princeton, is essentially a quantitative finance program, but with more extensive tracks in addition to derivative pricing. (When we talk about the M.Fin program that can be compared to MFE@Berkeley/CMU/NewYork/Baruch/etc., I suppose that we are...

Thanks;) In fact, most people suggest me to continue my CS PhD program. Yes, I can also take some classes from the MFE program in my university (CMU). It's a pity that only Princeton's program has a separate track (and thus enough courses) for Quantitative Asset Management and Macroeconomic...

Thanks for the reply and your time. Sometimes it really painful to make a balance between "to study what you are better than others/what you are really interested in" and "to study what is obviously useful for finance". PDE/stochastic calculus are forever in quantitative finance, but they are...

Thanks. For applying regular finance programs, perhaps my background is too weak in that I'm completely a quantitative guy ... major in computer software in undergraduate and statistical machine learning in graduate school.

thanks. You are right. a lot of CS researchers are not working towards a good algorithm that works well on real-world data. What they do is to design an algorithm, and then to FIND SOME DATASETS ON WHICH THE ALGORITHM WORKS ...... as a result, most knowledge I can get from the PhD might be...

Thanks! I agree. This is why I want to find some MFE program with a separate track for asset management, rather than a statistics program.

Thanks for your information. I mentioned portfolio management OR algorithmic trading because my quantitative background (statistics, machine learning, AI, etc) is useful in these tasks. On the other hand, derivative pricing is not suitable for me since I'm not expert in PDE and Stochastic...

Thanks for suggestoins. I am mainly interested the quantitative roles in finance who mainly use statistical data analysis and machine learning. So perhaps asset/portfolio management or high-frequency automatic trading correspond to such roles. To choose different programs/degrees, I am also...

btw, the master in finance @ Princeton is essentially a quantitative finance program (i.e., MFE program). The only difference is that their courses are more extensive to provide a separate asset management/microstructure forcasting track in addtion to the traditional derivatives pricing/risk...

thanks. statistical machine learning and data analysis is my interest and my current research in the phd program. This is why I consider the second career track rather than the first one.

thanks. I will read.

thanks for reply. btw, i'm already in a phd program. my choice is 1) to finish it or 2) to leave with only a master degree and go for another MFE.

Somebody divides quants as two broad categories: one in derivatives pricing/risk management and the other in quantitative equity/Asset Management/market microstructure. These two kinds of quants use different skills: the first needs more Stochastic Calculus and the second relies more on...

Which of the following two backgrounds is more competitive for a decent quantitative position at Wall Street (e.g., portfolio management or automatic trading)? 1) PhD in Computer Science from a good CS program, major in machine learning and statistical data analysis. 2) Master in Computer...