COMPARE Columbia MFE vs Columbia MSOR

[Keni]

Columbia MSFE vs Columbia MSOR - Methods in Finance

MSFE
M.S. Financial Engineering

MS in Operations Research - Methods in Finance
CVN - Columbia Video Network

The Columbia MSFE program is the formal FE prgoram at Columbia and the CVN program (Columbia Video Network) is pretty much the same program, the electives can be chosen so that it equals the MSFE with about two courses in difference. I live in CT and I would really enjoy the flexibilty the CVN offers, since I can attend class whenever I wish or I can just tune into the lectures which are posted after each class session.

What do the members here feel about the differences in the program. The only thing I really see is the designation of the degree at the end, MSFE vs MSOR - Methods in Finance.

Do you feel employers may view this degree in a different light than the MSFE degree ?

 

[doug reich]

There was a big thread on the benefits of the programs recently:

F

Columbia MSOR Thread 'some truth about the Columbia MSOR'

4/16/08

I see some misleading information and some very ignorant comments about the Columbia OR program here. So I would like to start this new thread to tell some truth about OR and the Columbia program.

The following information is from the IEOR department of Columbia University.

"
MSOR degree candidates are required to satisfy a core program of graduate courses:
SIEO W4150: Introduction to Probability and Statistics
IEOR E4004: Intro to OR: Deterministic Models
IEOR E4106: Intro to OR: Stochastic Models
IEOR E4004: Simulation
All students must take at least 18 points of graduate work in...

• fffk
• Replies: 97
• Forum: United States

That might help.

 

[Eugene Krel]

There are several threads on this topic. Please employ the search feature.

 

[jzavala]

I did some searching and could not find an answer. It is a rather simple question. It seems most people are applying to Columbia are interested in the MFE or MSOR with FE concentration. I am interested in financial engineering as well as operations research and quantitative methods to improve processes in all types of businesses, so not necessarily MSOR with FE concentration. So my question is, when one applies to a program in the IEOR department, is it one app for all programs and you choose the one(s) you are interested in? Or do you have to submit separate applications for both? Since many people are redirected to MSOR from MFE, is it incorrect to apply to both? Does it look bad? This question stems since I have interest in both financial engineering and operations research and not just having operations research as a back up. Thanks in advance.

 

[KaiRu]

Would not it be better to ask Columbia Admission Office or contact someone from IEOR ?

 

[jzavala]

They don't pick up their phone.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Suppose you apply to both separately and get accepted into both, which one would you join? Applying to MFE has the added benefit of potentially being referred to the MSOR program but it's not a guarantee as they only refer a subset of rejected MFE applicants.
They should have some policy on their website about applying to both programs under the same department?

 

[Lin]

you can apply to multiple programs within COlumbia but not in the same school..
so no, you cant apply to both OR and FE..
I had asked them last year..

 

[jzavala]

Thank you for the replies. That answers my question.

 

[GiggsyNineHundred]

I have been noticing that many MFE applicants are being directed to MSOR. Given that MFE and MSOR students can take few common classes, how is job prospect for for the MSOR?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

This is about time of year when Columbia MFE applicants got redirected to MSOR and questions about this arise. You can find more info here
https://www.quantnet.com/threads/some-truth-about-the-columbia-msor.1358/
https://www.quantnet.com/threads/anyone-else-headed-to-columbia-msor.6057/
https://www.quantnet.com/forum/quant-programs.25/?prefix_id=12

 

[dmv]

job prospects for any kind of Masters (MFE, MathFin, MSOR) is almost same. Currently it is not good. Employer does not really care about name of your program, he really cares about what u know. And here begins the difference. Suppose you study everything well according program curriculum then from MSOR u have almost NO chances to get a job in a top firm. Why? Because the stuff you studied is not enough (and it not tailored) for finance. So if u are in MSOR u have to study much more - first, your curriculum, second, finance curriculum. General stuff in almost same (probability, simulation, some math). But MSOR curriculum has almost no stochastic calculus and related stuff. So it is your responsibility to study it by yourself. On spring you take almost all courses as MFEs, but it has sense only if u know prereq stuff (stoch calc, finance, programming, etc.). In sum - MSOR is not a worst choice, but definitely it requires you to study much more.

 

[GiggsyNineHundred]

job prospects for any kind of Masters (MFE, MathFin, MSOR) is almost same. Currently it is not good. Employer does not really care about name of your program, he really cares about what u know. And here begins the difference. Suppose you study everything well according program curriculum then from MSOR u have almost NO chances to get a job in a top firm. Why? Because the stuff you studied is not enough (and it not tailored) for finance. So if u are in MSOR u have to study much more - first, your curriculum, second, finance curriculum. General stuff in almost same (probability, simulation, some math). But MSOR curriculum has almost no stochastic calculus and related stuff. So it is your responsibility to study it by yourself. On spring you take almost all courses as MFEs, but it has sense only if u know prereq stuff (stoch calc, finance, programming, etc.). In sum - MSOR is not a worst choice, but definitely it requires you to study much more.

Thank you very much for your answer!
I will be fine with prereq stuff you mentioned. I am ( or will be) taking Mathematical Finance I, II, Statistical Inference I, Stochastic Processes I, II, and Probability Theory as part of my UG electives. (plus core required math classes such as numerical methods and analysis). I do not really love coding (even though I am not that bad) but I have taken a couple programming classes and will add a couple more.

Do you know the class profile of Columbia MSOR?

 

[dmv]

Class profile:
1) Mostly guys who were redirected from MFE (I estimate 80-90% of class).
2) So in general profile looks like this:
young guys mostly without prior experience, previous education varies but frequently it is something like mechanical engineering (technical but not too mathematical, although there is people with CompSci, Phys, Math), age ~ 24-25. Class size: 80-90 (dont know exactly). So, if we talk about "knowledge" and "learning skills" I would say that MSOR guys are on average same as MFE. But MFEs have more relevant experience and in that sense they are stronger.

 

[Yang_Pop]

job prospects for any kind of Masters (MFE, MathFin, MSOR) is almost same. Currently it is not good. Employer does not really care about name of your program, he really cares about what u know. And here begins the difference. Suppose you study everything well according program curriculum then from MSOR u have almost NO chances to get a job in a top firm. Why? Because the stuff you studied is not enough (and it not tailored) for finance. So if u are in MSOR u have to study much more - first, your curriculum, second, finance curriculum. General stuff in almost same (probability, simulation, some math). But MSOR curriculum has almost no stochastic calculus and related stuff. So it is your responsibility to study it by yourself. On spring you take almost all courses as MFEs, but it has sense only if u know prereq stuff (stoch calc, finance, programming, etc.). In sum - MSOR is not a worst choice, but definitely it requires you to study much more.

Hi dmv:
So, what is more important in finding a job? your personal ability? the location?
And what kind of and to what extend finance courses that the students from MSOR might need to study? Could preparation for CFA cover that or even much more?

 

[dmv]

Hi dmv:
So, what is more important in finding a job? your personal ability? the location?
And what kind of and to what extend finance courses that the students from MSOR might need to study? Could preparation for CFA cover that or even much more?

In this market, location definitely plays import role (location + school`s brand). Because top firms filter people by school (this is preliminary filtering made by HR). Top firms visit top schools with presentations and campus hiring programs. It is very important. I cannot say that location + brand factors guarantee you something, they simply slightly increase your chances (at least they not decrease them).

Personal ability? I dont know what you mean. If u are talking about previous degree, then I would say that previous degree is important (if you are CompSci - it is very good).

for quant roles CFA means almost nothing (of course it is not bad, but it is not something employers look for). For equity research, investment research (strategy), asset management - CFA is a good thing, but not for quants.

"Finance courses" - I meant math fin courses. not pure finance (MBA finance). Option pricing (for sure), General Finance (Hull level), and math with financial applications.

 

[Yang_Pop]

In this market, location definitely plays import role (location + school`s brand). Because top firms filter people by school (this is preliminary filtering made by HR). Top firms visit top schools with presentations and campus hiring programs. It is very important. I cannot say that location + brand factors guarantee you something, they simply slightly increase your chances (at least they not decrease them).

Personal ability? I dont know what you mean. If u are talking about previous degree, then I would say that previous degree is important (if you are CompSci - it is very good).

for quant roles CFA means almost nothing (of course it is not bad, but it is not something employers look for). For equity research, investment research (strategy), asset management - CFA is a good thing, but not for quants.

"Finance courses" - I meant math fin courses. not pure finance (MBA finance). Option pricing (for sure), General Finance (Hull level), and math with financial applications.

Got that, Thanks dmv
It seems that MSOR in Columbia could provide us with some advantages, such as the location and reputation of the university, but we still need to study very hard to get 'the job'. As for making up for the lack of training in the finance and math courses, how could I achieve that? I am a senior majored in financial mathematics now, and have taken courses in calculus, statistics and probability. Do I stand a chance to catch up with the MFE students?

By the way, actually, I haven't made final decision about my future career. I might redirect to to do asset management or risk control, and if so, would the flexibility of MSOR be helpful?

 

[FrankW]

I compared the courses offered by MSOR and MSFE program in Columbia. I found substantial differences.

Can someone tell me what are essential courses that one would need to take to have the adequate qualification for financial engineering. I would like to find out whether it is present in MSOR program.

I used to have an EE degree. I thought it could allow me to land a decent CS related job. However, when I tried to find a CS job, boy, it was hard. I was missing quite a few CS fundamentals. And, the decent CS companies wouldn't even consider. Don't want to go through this again.

Thanks