International with a Cambridge math degree, trying to get into US

Charlie_Luciano · 3/3/15

Hi guys, I've been reading the forum for a while and there's lots of good advice, but I want to see if I can get some advice for my specific situation.
I am a Bulgarian citizen about to graduate from the University of Cambridge with a BA in Mathematics. I have been trying to get into finance (spring weeks, internships) since my first year in uni, but I've never gone past the CV screening stage, even given that I have received CV advice from Cambridge's careers service. I have finance/investment societies and I had a committee position at an averagely large sports club. Still, no success. Currently I am being interviewed a few times a week for programming jobs, as I have had experience in high school with programming competitions, so I think it's reasonable to believe that I'll manage to get a job as a programmer. However, I still want to work into finance, I am young (20) and I don't really care what hours I put into my job right now and all these UK 37.5 hour work weeks are not really cutting it for me financially (although I am coming from Bulgaria so financially right now, I am fairly poor, but I know I can do well given my skills). So I am wondering what's my best bet. I've been considering working for a couple of years and then an MFE at a top institution in the US (definitely not the UK, everybody has been telling me that maths at Cambridge means top jobs straight away and I saw that that's bull sh-t) or programming for a few years, potentially finish a 4th year in Cambridge and then look for a technical PhD in the US (as I understand financing a PhD is a lot easier than financing a master's for an international student), which I could leverage for either a top programming or a top finance job.
My end game is that I want to be in a hedge fund, private equity fund or a venture capital fund in my early 30s. However all my ideas to reach that level are filled with uncertainties. Hence I am asking for your ideas.

mhy · 3/3/15

MFE are not really designed to put you in PE or VC. You know that right?

Charlie_Luciano · 3/3/15

Yes, I am just saying what my end game was and still is. PE and VC (along with hedge funds) were for example motivations for me applying to corporate finance roles. Now hedge funds are a motivation for me considering a quant career.

Lately, however, I've been considering staying into programming well after my first job in order to progress to project management and then try to go into VC.

What I'm asking is what is the career/education path with the largest probability of landing into PE, VC or HF from my starting point (maths at Cambridge, Bulgarian, no relevant work experience (relevant societies though) + zero money)

implol · 3/3/15

well for PE, the best path is M&A experience. this is the most common path into PE. so maybe use your cambridge degree to get into IB.

you can get into HF as a quant.

Charlie_Luciano · 3/3/15

implol said:
well for PE, the best path is M&A experience. this is the most common path into PE. so maybe use your cambridge degree to get into IB.

you can get into HF as a quant.

Yes, but is there a chance for me to get into M&A, given that I have no internships during university?

mhy · 3/3/15

Yes you can get in but will need to figure out how to get IBD interviews first.
For (IBD) -> PE/VC, you will probably want to go into banking and then get an MBA. Try wallstreetoasis.com.

For HF a top MFE can get you in the door.

Charlie_Luciano · 3/3/15

mhy said:
For HF a top MFE can get you in the door.

Given that I have zero money, which of the top universities offer the best loans for international students in MFE?
Also is the case same as with MBA - i.e. I need to get some work experience first, or can I jump straight in?

mhy · 3/3/15

Charlie_Luciano said:
Given that I have zero money, which of the top universities offer the best loans for international students in MFE?
Also is the case same as with MBA - i.e. I need to get some work experience first, or can I jump straight in?

Most MFE programs do not provide financial aid and only a few provide loans. If you need to borrow money, your only option is likely a private loan which you will need U.S. credit history to obtain. I do know that some programs (NYU I think?) have relationships with US lenders but again you will need a US cosigner or credit history.

As for work experience it's recommended but not required. There are plenty of people in my program who are fresh out of university.

bigbadwolf · 3/3/15

Charlie_Luciano said:
potentially finish a 4th year in Cambridge and then look for a technical PhD in the US (as I understand financing a PhD is a lot easier than financing a master's for an international student), which I could leverage for either a top programming or a top finance job.

That's a good idea. If you get a first, you can probably get admitted to the Part III, and if you get a merit or distinction in that, you can get into a top US PhD program.

implol · 3/3/15

If he has distinction in Cambridge, I can't understand why he never passed hr screening stage, like not even once? It looks like his cv should be good. And he actively applied for internships since first year too. If you are a top student, you have a lot of good options. You can apply phd right away. You may apply cmc MSF to get into ib since cmc gives out lots of scholarship. Or you can network and intern at small firm to get WE. Passing Cfa level 1 may be helpful too.

bigbadwolf · 3/3/15

implol said:
If he has distinction in Cambridge, I can't understand why he never passed hr screening stage ...

He's finishing his BA, not the Part III. And the class (first, upper second, lower second, third, pass) of his BA remains unknown at the moment.

Charlie_Luciano · 3/3/15

implol said:
If he has distinction in Cambridge, I can't understand why he never passed hr screening stage, like not even once? It looks like his cv should be good. And he actively applied for internships since first year too.

As bigbadwolf already said, I only know my class marks from my exams from my first two years (Upper Second). However, in the UK good academics are not enough, I have a friend from my college who was 7th in maths in the whole university and he still didn't get past the CV screening in banks(he also has a fair bit of sports + a programming internship). I don't know why, I guess it's just that the job market is currently a bit shit in the UK.

I had a risk management phone interview at RBS and they said that I've passed the benchmark, but this still doesn't guarantee me an assessment centre stage. Apparently quite a lot of people can pass the benchmark at the phone interview and it that case, they only invite a part of them. Is a risk management internship something I can use to get into IBD?

Also how good is Part III maths to get a job in the US or a good firm in the UK straight out of uni? I have a phone interview tomorrow with a Chicago prop trading firm for a research position, so I know it's possible, but I want to know how likely it is.

bigbadwolf · 3/3/15

Charlie_Luciano said:
Also how good is Part III maths to get a job in the US or a good firm in the UK straight out of uni? I have a phone interview tomorrow with a Chicago prop trading firm for a research position, so I know it's possible, but I want to know how likely it is.

In the USA just about useless -- unless the interviewer specifically knows what the Part III is (and that still might not help). In the UK, maybe gives you a fillip, particularly if the interviewer/s went to Cambridge themselves. The Part III is useful in getting you into ranking math PhD programs in the UK and US.