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What is the most natural transition to a Desk Quant position?

roni

roni

Cornell FE
Joined
3/19/09
Messages
608
Points
38
Who has better chances getting into front- desk quant analysis?

1) Quant Developer (includes Quant Trading?)

2) Quant Risk Analyst

3) Derivatives Trading Analyst

I know that the question is too general and it pretty much depends on the background and how good he is. But, say you get your MFE and since desk quants are mostly for PhDs, an MFE grad (no extensive work experience) is not likely to become one.
Perhaps a few years in a quant related job will help. Where would you go if you had an option?

Thanks.
 
I was talking to a BB for a desk quant internship for structured products. It depends on your strengths. If you are a good developer then you will be given developer stuff, if you're good with risk you will be given more pricing/math stuff.
 
Joy Pathak said:
I was talking to a BB for a desk quant internship for structured products. It depends on your strengths. If you are a good developer then you will be given developer stuff, if you're good with risk you will be given more pricing/math stuff.
Click to expand...
I see... so starting in derivatives trading is not a good path....
I guess risk analysis will be good for me as I'm not an excellent programmer :\

Thanks again,
Joy.
 
roni said:
I see... so starting in derivatives trading is not a good path....
I guess risk analysis will be good for me as I'm not an excellent programmer :\

Thanks again,
Joy.
Click to expand...

No. Trading is probably the best path if you have the mathematic and programming ability. Also, depends on the firm. at JP Morgan Desk quants are in QR team whereas at MS they are in Sales and Trading.
 
Joy Pathak said:
No. Trading is probably the best path if you have the mathematic and programming ability. Also, depends on the firm. at JP Morgan Desk quants are in QR team whereas at MS they are in Sales and Trading.
Click to expand...

But if I go into S&T (not desk quants), I won't use my programming/math skills, will I? So, I will become kind of rusty over the years until I finally get the opportunity to get into desk quant...
 
roni said:
But if I go into S&T (not desk quants), I won't use my programming/math skills, will I? So, I will become kind of rusty over the years until I finally get the opportunity to get into desk quant...
Click to expand...

Meh. If you're in sales then probably not.
 
Joy Pathak said:
Meh. If you're in sales then probably not.
Click to expand...
What if you are in trading? do you really use the math/programming skills you obtain during the MFE program?
If I'm not mistaken many undergrads end up in S&T (I don't think all of them in sales...).
 
roni said:
What if you are in trading? do you really use the math/programming skills you obtain during the MFE program?
If I'm not mistaken many undergrads end up in S&T (I don't think all of them in sales...).
Click to expand...
Undergrads? Maybe as analysts. Most trader I have met had at least masters(MBA mostly, some MFE). I did meet some with just bachelors of ivy leagues. S&T is the most competitive, the hardest department at the bank usually to get into.
 
I think that it depends on what you are dealing with on the trading desk. If it's algo trading, you may use your quantitative skills but if it's delta one trading, you may not use much of your science skills...

When you are hired on a graduate program in S&T, does it mean that you will be sales or trader?
 
Joy Pathak said:
Undergrads? Maybe as analysts. Most trader I have met had at least masters(MBA mostly, some MFE). I did meet some with just bachelors of ivy leagues. S&T is the most competitive, the hardest department at the bank usually to get into.
Click to expand...
I was actually talking about trading... isn't a trader just one part of trading?
I know it's very competitive... but I don't see how this path is going to benefit me toward my ultimate goal...
 
Moumou said:
I think that it depends on what you are dealing with on the trading desk. If it's algo trading, you may use your quantitative skills but if it's delta one trading, you may not use much of your science skills...
Click to expand...
Algo trading= developer?
So, developer is the way to go?
 
roni said:
I was actually talking about trading... isn't a trader just one part of trading?
I know it's very competitive... but I don't see how this path is going to benefit me toward my ultimate goal...
Click to expand...

Your ultimate goal is Desk Quant? Get into any department at a bank that has a quantitative component if you CANNOT get into the desk quant internship program. If you can get into desk quant internship program then you're set.

Were you one of the students who got into Baruch? If so...we have a strong relationship with JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley Desk Quant programs. They present on campus and interview several students every year.
 
Moumou said:
I think that it depends on what you are dealing with on the trading desk. If it's algo trading, you may use your quantitative skills but if it's delta one trading, you may not use much of your science skills...

When you are hired on a graduate program in S&T, does it mean that you will be sales or trader?
Click to expand...

Most graduate programs are rotational. So you can choose to be on a sales rotation or just trading rotations.
 
Joy Pathak said:
Most graduate programs are rotational. So you can choose to be on a sales rotation or just trading rotations.
Click to expand...
If you are in trading rotations, you will rotate between which roles? Trader assistant - Trading analyst - Strategist?
 
Joy Pathak said:
Your ultimate goal is Desk Quant? Get into any department at a bank that has a quantitative component if you CANNOT get into the desk quant internship program. If you can get into desk quant internship program then you're set.
Click to expand...
So, when you say "a quantitative component", do you include trading in it?

Joy Pathak said:
Were you one of the students who got into Baruch? If so...we have a strong relationship with JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley Desk Quant programs. They present on campus and interview several students every year.
Click to expand...
That's me :)
I know that Baruch has good connections in JPM and MS desk quant.
But, I also want to take into account a situation where I don't get into desk quant right away.
Which job will be a safer bet to eventually land a job as a desk quant....
 
roni said:
Who has better chances getting into front- desk quant analysis?

3) Derivatives Trading Analyst
Click to expand...

We'd better exclude option 3 if it means a junor trader. Desk quant plays a supporting role for trader. Actually in sell side many desk quants want to transfer to traders.
 
roni said:
Who has better chances getting into front- desk quant analysis?

1) Quant Developer (includes Quant Trading?)

2) Quant Risk Analyst

3) Derivatives Trading Analyst

I know that the question is too general and it pretty much depends on the background and how good he is. But, say you get your MFE and since desk quants are mostly for PhDs, an MFE grad (no extensive work experience) is not likely to become one.
Perhaps a few years in a quant related job will help. Where would you go if you had an option?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Could someone give a short description of the roles above? (Front Desk Quant, Quant Developer, Quant Risk Analyst and Derivatives Trading Analyst)
While I understand broadly what each does, I would like to know more about responsibilities and progress of each.
 
AlexandreH said:
Could someone give a short description of the roles above? (Front Desk Quant, Quant Developer, Quant Risk Analyst and Derivatives Trading Analyst)
While I understand broadly what each does, I would like to know more about responsibilities and progress of each.
Click to expand...

There is a article by Mark Joshi on the different types of quants. Google it and have a look at it. Maybe someone can post it. I am on my phone so I can't.
 
roni said:
If so, this is ideal...
Click to expand...
Moumou said:
If you are in trading rotations, you will rotate between which roles? Trader assistant - Trading analyst - Strategist?
Click to expand...

Nonono. Definitely not. Those are completely different roles. Well, the TA and Trading Analyst are basically the same thing sometimes in S&T. Sometimes TA is going towards Trading and Trading analyst might be more support doing pricing and research.

You do NOT rotate through professions. You rotate through desks. So most banks have a 3 rotation program. You might be on a mortgage trading desk, credit and then delta one, depending on your preference and strengths.
 
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